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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:24 am 
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charles wrote:
ok people we all know drugs can be very destructive BUT using scare tactics like calling the cops is a very weak and un-punk like action!!! we all know that severs is angry at the situation and he has his right to his opinions. you CAN care about your friends and protect them the best way you think but just because your values are different does't make it ok to force them on other people. it's a little tyrannical. so somebody got fucked up and paramedics needed to come there and save that person. it is o.k. to tell them(the paramedics) what's wrong... THAT is not being a narc, that is being a friend and helping them to get the proper medical attention that they needed at that time. if your going to call the cops for dealing drugs then by logic you MUST report bartenders that serve drunks who are way beyond the legal limit and let them go out into the night and potentionaly wreck into someone or something. let's not be hypocrits here. alcohol is just as dangeruos if not more than heroin and yet it is legal. it's like watching t.v. if you don't like what your watching then change the fucking channel!!! putting the blame on the dealers is not going to change anything...we are grown people and have to take responsibility for our own actions. plain and simple



lolwut


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:57 am 
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I agree with Severs and Livingston on this, meaning that they are both right. It is against the Code to turn a fellow freak into the cops UNLESS the asshole in question is actively preying upon other people. Going crazy? I'm not telling the cops where you are. Kicked in the side of some asshole's car because he almost ran over you? I have no idea who you are and where you might be. However, if some stupid motherfucker is laying on the floor dying you need to take the feelings of his parents and friends into account and tell the EMS people the truth. You also should narc on anybody who is pushing heroin to kids, or directly screwing with the lives of children through the manufacture or use of illegal drugs. You fuck with kids and you need to go bye-bye.

But narc on some asshole who is helping other assholes to kill themselves? I personally wouldn't do it. I enjoy watching people destroy themselves in order to get attention, sympathy or for other deep-seated psychological reasons. I didn't ask for my mental illness (MDD with psychotic features). My friends with bipolar disorder didn't ask for theirs, either. People who developed horrible mental illnesses after taking handfuls of LSD or shrooms? I have zero pity for these people.

There isn't a Heroin Fairy who shoots you up between the toes while you are sleeping- at some point a person decides to do the drug all on their own. Sure, they may have a horrible predisposition to addiction, but nobody forces people to do recreational drugs.

Heroin destroying the scene? What does that tell you? Think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:25 am 
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let it burn.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:45 am 
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paulw wrote:
coke is way way way more accepted if you pull a bag out at a party, for instance.

Or in the Cahoots bathroom. I've gone in to piss and had bumps of coke offered to me over the stall door. You know, like "hey, buddy...I see you're taking a piss. Would you like some cocaine to help with that?"


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:52 am 
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Transmission3000 wrote:
paulw wrote:
coke is way way way more accepted if you pull a bag out at a party, for instance.

Or in the Cahoots bathroom. I've gone in to piss and had bumps of coke offered to me over the stall door. You know, like "hey, buddy...I see you're taking a piss. Would you like some cocaine to help with that?"


yep. i somehow spent a large amount of time in that place without anyone ever offering.


also, holy shit at the amount of lurkers posting ITT.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:13 am 
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carrie_neumayer wrote:
It's awful when one person you've looked up to for years is fighting for their life and at the same time another person you used to look up is completely giving up on their own.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:03 pm 
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Transmission3000 wrote:
paulw wrote:
coke is way way way more accepted if you pull a bag out at a party, for instance.

Or in the Cahoots bathroom. I've gone in to piss and had bumps of coke offered to me over the stall door. You know, like "hey, buddy...I see you're taking a piss. Would you like some cocaine to help with that?"

Wow. Little did I know that someone most of us all know OD-ed AT CAHOOTS, the other night. Bravo! If nothing else, it takes "hitting rock bottom" to all new lows.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:51 pm 
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paperdubs wrote:
XloydtilldeathX666 wrote:
for the record...


Much better! You should always be prepared to back up a point with evidence. It makes your argument much stronger. Still, to clarify, my main point was that I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Compared to other problems with drug law enforcement, the concern that some cops turn around and sell the stuff themselves isn't that big of a deal. I'm much more concerned with drug laws that punish the poor and minorities more than well-off white folks, or racial profiling by police that leads to a disproportionate number of minority drug arrests, or even just the personal rights issue of people being allowed to dismantle their own bodies however they see fit.

Why do I see those problems as more important than cops dealing drugs? Well, for one thing, cops dealing drugs are actively breaking the law and can/do get caught. The reason we know about these cases is specifically because they got caught. Maybe it's only a small fraction that get caught, but that's just conjecture. At any rate, there are internal controls in place to at least try to combat this. There are no controls for fucked up drug laws, though, because those are the controls. A cop enforcing fucked up laws is actually doing their job the way that they're supposed to be doing it under our present system. That's a big deal. It means that even if every cop is squeaky clean, we still have a very big problem with our criminal justice system as it applies to drugs.



yea, but we are talking about drug dealers, and narcing. it seems to me that if narcing results in an even more dangerous and untouchable dealer, than before, that that is more relevant to our current discussion than how fucked the drug laws are. personally i believe in decriminalization. just because i believe people shouldnt do something doesnt mean i think they should have the right to do it taken away. plus looking at how the drug laws work, how people get life in california for dealing weed 3 times.. etc.. not to mention how this fuels private prisons, etc.. it makes no sense. i think prohibition proved that. plus it removes the taboo, which means rebels and reactionaries will care less about drugs, it leads to regulation which means people wont be poisoned by stupid shit like rat poison in their drugs.. etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Most of you who know me on here know that I have done my tour with drugs. So I know a little bit about what the fuck. But fuck you anyway.

This "only the strong survive" bullshit is just that. BULLSHIT. Population control? Fuck off, loser. Dan, spare me. "Cocaine is so wrong because all of the blood that is spilled to bring it to your nose" blah, blah... WTF. It's not like there is a poppy field growing in fucking Shively. Are you serious?

Taking pleasure in their pain? Wow. Good luck with that. No compassion? Fine. I'll wait until you experience an illness/accident and then what, should I come over and laugh in your face and call you a weakling? No one asks to become an addict. Becoming an addict is not a choice. Love is what cures people of this but hell, showing love and compassion is not the MO of a group of shit stains like you guys. Whatever. I'm upset over this and probably should not be posting this right now. But our friends are fucking dying and I read about all of his other his supposed "friends" saying, so what? You tell me. How am I supposed to fucking feel?

I would love to corner the little vermin who sold this shit.

Doug, the difference is a snitch is someone who rats out his own to save his/her own ass. There is no communal benefit. It's purely selfish. Screw all of you little shits who want to maintain this foolish fuck headed pride of the "streets". Get fucked and stay away from me.

Let me get this straight. Preying upon a friend's weakness? That's ok. But trying to put a stop to it by sending this junk dealing worm to where he belongs is wrong... Hmmm.

FUCK YOU ALL.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:26 pm 
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quasar wrote:
Most of you who know me on here know that I have done my tour with drugs. So I know a little bit about what the fuck. But fuck you anyway.

This "only the strong survive" bullshit is just that. BULLSHIT. Population control? Fuck off, loser. Dan, spare me. "Cocaine is so wrong because all of the blood that is spilled to bring it to your nose" blah, blah... WTF. It's not like there is a poppy field growing in fucking Shively. Are you serious?

Taking pleasure in their pain? Wow. Good luck with that. No compassion? Fine. I'll wait until you experience an illness/accident and then what, should I come over and laugh in your face and call you a weakling? No one asks to become an addict. Becoming an addict is not a choice. Love is what cures people of this but hell, showing love and compassion is not the MO of a group of shit stains like you guys. Whatever. I'm upset over this and probably should not be posting this right now. But our friends are fucking dying and I read about all of his other his supposed "friends" saying, so what? You tell me. How am I supposed to fucking feel?

I would love to corner the little vermin who sold this shit.

Doug, the difference is a snitch is someone who rats out his own to save his/her own ass. There is no communal benefit. It's purely selfish. Screw all of you little shits who want to maintain this foolish fuck headed pride of the "streets". Get fucked and stay away from me.

Let me get this straight. Preying upon a friend's weakness? That's ok. But trying to put a stop to it by sending this junk dealing worm to where he belongs is wrong... Hmmm.

FUCK YOU ALL.


Thank you. That's kind of the definition I've always thought of too.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:59 pm 
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whoa there tiger. im not pretending that the heroin i did was not coated in the blood of those who died growing/preparing/and transporting it.

its another of the reasons i dont do it. kharma? a bullshit concept. however my conscious dictates that i dont want people to suffer for my pleasure.

but actually poppies probably do grow in shively. when my opium connection was in lexington they also grew in his back yard.


but yeah, i can see how that might have appeared i was framing cocaine and heroin differently as far as all the stuff that is attached to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:20 pm 
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quasar wrote:
Becoming an addict is not a choice.


I appreciate the argument you're making for compassion, but I'm sorry - taking highly addictive drugs IS a choice.

If I have a terminal illness or I just don't give a shit if I live or die anyway - fuck it, give me some heroin and coke. Otherwise, I'm not doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:25 pm 
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andrewpadon wrote:
quasar wrote:
Becoming an addict is not a choice.


I appreciate the argument you're making for compassion, but I'm sorry - taking highly addictive drugs IS a choice.

Yeah, I dunno. it's almost like every person that decides to try that shit thinks "well, unlike EVERYONE ELSE, I'm not gonna get addicted. I'm the exception to the rule!"


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:07 pm 
N00Benstein

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:54 pm
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So, paperdubs, when is the next meeting of The Louisville Naivete Society? Is it at Flanagan's again?

All kidding aside, I have encountered several first hand accounts of cops selling (or keeping for their own use) drugs they've taken from people. I've heard enough anecdotal evidence from enough people that combined with the public record-type shit (examples of which were linked to earlier in this thread), and combined with some very basic logic and business sense, makes the view that cops are reselling confiscated drugs quite believable.

I find your assertion that cops are involved in the drug trade, but are not taking advantage of the large amounts of free drugs available to them due to their position, pretty ridiculous. Do cops have the worst business sense of all time?? Or are the Drug-dealing cops too ethical to steal product from the people they bust?

please keep in mind that I write this next part as
a) your friend
b) a person who is at least as smart, rational, and logical, as you are.

It may be in your best interest to lessen the amount of condescension in your writing. Calling someone's statements "wild claims" and making snide remarks about Al Pacino movies when the reality is that people are just discussing a topic you are not especially knowledgeable about doesn't help your case. Its okay to act unsure about a topic. You can express doubt abut someone's claim and ask for supporting evidence without an air of superiority. Expressions like "That sounds unlikely, why do you think that happens?" or "Is there any evidence to support that this phenomenon happens? I've never heard of it." will help you acquit yourself better in situations like this. Also, when people do start offering evidence, rather than taking the part of a patronizing professor and patting them on the head, you may want to apologize.

Oh yeah, one last thing:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Do+Cops+Sell+Drugs%3F


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Not that Mr Time can't handle himself...but...

In the original post, the claim was made in a manner that would suggest cops selling drugs is the rule and not the exception.

Bigtime's response as I read it was the exact contrary, that it is the exception and not the rule.

At least that's what I took away from the begining of the exchange.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:25 pm 
N00Benstein

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I think we can all agree that letting medical professionals know someone is ODing on drugs is not only not snitching, but also responsible. EMTs, nurses, and doctors need as much information as possible to do the best job they can. Also, they aren't cops.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Soul Proprietor wrote:
I find your assertion that cops are involved in the drug trade, but are not taking advantage of the large amounts of free drugs available to them due to their position, pretty ridiculous.

I didn't make that assertion. Reread my arguments. My point was that it's not as big of a problem as other problems with drug law enforcement. Just asking for evidence of something isn't making the assertion that it never happens. It's just asking for evidence.

Quote:
making snide remarks about Al Pacino movies

Wasn't me, bro. I did say wild claims, though, because the way I took it originally was that every cop that busts someone turns around and sells the drugs. I assume now that that was not the claim. You would agree that would be a wild claim, though, wouldn't you?

Quote:
You can express doubt abut someone's claim and ask for supporting evidence without an air of superiority.

Hasn't the lack of tone of voice always been the problem with message boards? I think if this discussion had played out vocally, you probably wouldn't have detected any condescension or superiority. Fair enough. I'll try to make it a point to make my tone a little more clear in future posts.

Quote:
you may want to apologize.

Why would I apologize? Asking for evidence isn't damning someone or accusing them of anything. It's just asking for evidence. I wouldn't think that would be anything to apologize about.

Quote:

:lol:

And, yeah, Doug got me. Good lookin' out, Doug. I'll take Colin's advice, though, and try to maybe tone down a little.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:47 pm 
N00Benstein

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I love you, Bigtime. I'm ready to move on to the discussion of Snitching.

Those of you who know me know that I am not a big fan of the police. Both my own experiences and my anti-authoritarian beliefs put me at odds with the cops. I am loathe to call the cops in any situation. However, I'm not sure that a "purist" anti-snitching attitude is the wisest policy.

I see involving the cops in our own or other people's lives as a last resort to be avoided at all costs. We must always consider the possible outcomes when we call the cops. It is likely that we may be setting into motion a chain of events that lead to very unjust and/or cruel outcomes. For example, take the ubiquitous Noise Complaint. When the cops arrive at the offending house, they are going to aggressively search, treat the partiers as suspects, run IDs, etc. What if someone there has a bench warrant, or some drugs on them? What if there are young people drinking alcohol? People's lives can be turned upside down because of dumb shit like this.
Remember, Anytime the police come into a situation, it is quite possible that someone may get bullied/intimidated, beaten, incarcerated, and in some extreme situations, killed.

Having said that, there are times when I have involved the police in a situation. For example, when my apartment got broken into. I filed a report. I knew that the cops weren't going to find the person who did it, or even try. I knew that there was little to no danger of someone getting put away because of my call. However, I wanted to make a claim on my insurance, so I had to file a report. A similar situation would be car wreck. Unfortunately, cops are seen as infallible witness and official recorders in our society.

Another thing to keep in mind, and this is a card I usually play with anarchists, is that in our society, at the current time, what alternatives do we have. There is no "better system" in place for dealing with emergencies that we can't handle ourselves. I don't say this as a reason to call the cops, but to make the case for being more understanding of those who do.

With regards to Narcing on those selling hard drugs to our friends, My question is this: what good will come of it? What would be the exact results?
The people who are currently addicted will not kick their addiction because their dealer got locked up. They can only recover from their addiction by recovering from their addiction, by whatever method works for them. They need support and treatment, most likely.
If the Law comes into the situation, the addicts may well get locked up. That may clean them up, or it may not.

I am at work and have been wasting too much time with this shitty message board today. I have to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Soul Proprietor wrote:
With regards to Narcing on those selling hard drugs to our friends, My question is this: what good will come of it? What would be the exact results?


I think the general idea is that an incarcerated drug dealer is no longer dealing drugs. I get your point, but really, why should anyone care if a piece of shit drug dealer, who has caused an incredible amount of pain in the community, goes to jail? I think the idea here, is fuck them.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:23 pm 
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An interesting take on snitching.

NSFW because of language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazG1hKuCww


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:47 pm 
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im at work and i dont feel like reading everyones long posts...can someone just give me the cliffnotes on what everyones said?


also, i like someone arguing certain things being unpunk...if were going in that direction..this thread is gonna go on and on


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:53 pm 
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micah wrote:
im at work and i dont feel like reading everyones long posts...can someone just give me the cliffnotes on what everyones said?


also, i like someone arguing certain things being unpunk...if were going in that direction..this thread is gonna go on and on


Some people think snitching to the cops is a-okay. Some people think it's never okay. Some people are in the middle. And I went on a tangent.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:09 pm 
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I'm sorry, Bigtime, for not reading your whole post. I was on a fucking two-inch screen, if that's any consolation.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:23 pm 
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robertbell wrote:
I'm sorry, Bigtime, for not reading your whole post. I was on a fucking two-inch screen, if that's any consolation.

No worries.


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 Post subject: Re: Heroin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:52 pm 
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btw if someone could pm me a heroin dealers name it IS a long weekend.


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