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 Post subject: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:36 pm 
N00Benstein
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So how does one have a job and play music (writing, practicing, recording, possibly a van rented regional tour, oh and i forgot supporting a wife) . And where might one find a job like that round' here? Is it just constantly getting fired for being tired and showing up late? Or do you have and employer who knows and just doesn't give a shit? Self employment? Temp Services?

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:49 pm 
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There are plenty of hourly jobs that have no problems with musicians taking off weeks or months of unpaid time when it is planned, but the flip-side of most of those situations is that you need to be consistent when you are on the schedule.

Most of them won't get you insurance, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:52 pm 
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evenmoregeneric wrote:
There are plenty of hourly jobs that have no problems with musicians taking off weeks or months of unpaid time when it is planned, but the flip-side of most of those situations is that you need to be consistent when you are on the schedule.

Most of them won't get you insurance, though.


And they probably won't pay especially well either.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:09 pm 
N00Benstein
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I just don't want to go back to making pizza. I was hoping UPS would be a decent option, But it has proved wrong. I got an interview, took a piss test. Still no call...

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Well, that could just be the rusty cogs of corporate bureaucracy slowly turning. They should at least tell you 'yes' or 'no' at some point. I would politely follow up, but I would also have my eggs in other baskets and go on and apply for some more jobs. Being unemployed is a job in and of itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:23 pm 
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xSmellyxSkunkx wrote:
I just don't want to go back to making pizza. I was hoping UPS would be a decent option, But it has proved wrong. I got an interview, took a piss test. Still no call...


The benefits at UPS are great, but the pay is low, and do not expect leniency in your quest to be a musician. Vacation is something earned and parceled out by seniority (pun intended), so taking that several week tour will result in not having a job when you return. I would look for work in a bar, a record/comic store, a coffee house, or something similar if you would expect any kind of job to come back to. That or become a contractor and do grunt work. That's the kind of thing that doesn't have a definitive 9-5 always.

Of course, self-employment would be great too, but you need to produce something regular to make ends meet that way, which is a difficult task if you're on the road/playing shows/practicing as often as it sounds like you may want.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:24 pm 
N00Benstein
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If only some small business owner found my posts............................. Fuck it, Headed to Guitar Center's website.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:37 pm 
Shen-Long of the Internet
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Wash dishes. Work in a restaurant. Or better yet don't tour, stop thinking your band is "the shit" (not that you do) and do it because you love it and not because your ego tells you to get on stage every week and "rock out" when you are probably boring the hell out of everyone (your band may rule, but this is the majority I am speaking of). Respect your wife. Don't tour unless your getting paid a living wage to do it (LOL). Therefore, don't tour.

And if perhaps you think of "being in a band" means making cds, merchandise, selling stuff.. essentially making your band a commodity in the hopes you will get "signed" or "paid" or because your ego tells you that the public is just dying for another eye rolling shoegazer wimp rag anthem or straight edge screamo cry baby time or cookie monster belch dump or one two three four! hardcore my crew your crew punch'em up bullshit you are lying to yourself and your band probably sucks (again, yours may not).

I would rather travel to a city with my wife and eat and party with her than I would going to the same city with my bandmates (whom I love) and deal with some stupid show bullshit not getting paid redneck soundman asshole fast food eating money losing frustrating sleeping on floor horseshit.

But again to answer your question, if you want to be a part time transient rock slob, wash dishes.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:52 pm 
N00Benstein
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Quote:
And if perhaps you think of "being in a band" means making cds, merchandise, selling stuff.. essentially making your band a commodity in the hopes you will get "signed" or "paid" or because your ego tells you that the public is just dying for another eye rolling shoegazer wimp rag anthem or straight edge screamo cry baby time or cookie monster belch dump or one two three four! hardcore my crew your crew punch'em up bullshit you are lying to yourself and your band probably sucks (again, yours may not).

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I appreciate your realist ideology!

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:21 pm 
N00Benstein
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As far as the band goes, we really just played together when we felt like it. When no one was busy. Nothing too serious, but recently we have decided to get a little bit more serious. I just moved back to Louisville about a month ago and I'm trying to find a job that will contour to our plans. I'm not trying to count my chickens before they hatch but id like to have the option of touring if that's what we decide to do. It's more of a weekend hobby than a profession. Although I would like to play for a living.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:15 pm 
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xSmellyxSkunkx wrote:
It's more of a weekend hobby than a profession. Although I would like to play for a living.


Unfortunately, no. Keep it as a weekend hobby or move. Playing for a living means leaving and not coming home for a year or two. Also, don't expect to ever make any more than 50$ around town. It does happen. Sometimes.

If you're in Louisville, you play because you have to. Play because you love it and can't not play music. You will make no money from it while likely being treated like shit. Spend the rest of your life here attempting to figure out 'what went wrong' and 'why does nobody care' until you figure out that everyone is miserable. They're trying to figure out 'what went wrong' and 'why nobody cared'. This city is nothing but artists watching artists watching artists being jealous.

So, if you have artistry in your blood, you can feed the monster just enough to live with yourself here. If you're not planning on leaving town forever though, that's where it starts and ends. Only trust "good set man" maybe 1/3rd of the time you hear it.

Or move.


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:24 pm 
N00Benstein
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haas wrote:
xSmellyxSkunkx wrote:
It's more of a weekend hobby than a profession. Although I would like to play for a living.


Unfortunately, no. Keep it as a weekend hobby or move. Playing for a living means leaving and not coming home for a year or two. Also, don't expect to ever make any more than 50$ around town. It does happen. Sometimes.

If you're in Louisville, you play because you have to. Play because you love it and can't not play music. You will make no money from it while likely being treated like shit. Spend the rest of your life here attempting to figure out 'what went wrong' and 'why does nobody care' until you figure out that everyone is miserable. They're trying to figure out 'what went wrong' and 'why nobody cared'. This city is nothing but artists watching artists watching artists being jealous.

So, if you have artistry in your blood, you can feed the monster just enough to live with yourself here. If you're not planning on leaving town forever though, that's where it starts and ends. Only trust "good set man" maybe 1/3rd of the time you hear it.

Or move.



Image

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:48 pm 
N00Benstein
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what about with the internet? releasing tracks on reverbnation/youtube/facebook? has that made any significant changes in Louisville music? I mean couldn't you fill up a venue in like Indy or some shit without necessarily doing it in Louisville? I know thats a stupid question. I'd rather be big here than be big 100 miles away. I guess it just means more to me when I know i have some mutual friends/family here, and they will come to have fun, drink, and talk about the past. But still.... I have a love hate relationship with Louisville. I want to move and i don't think I ever will again, and from experience you can never really get away from Louisville. You will see a Spinellis t shirt somewhere, Or a Hookers record, or a can of Ale 8. It fucking follows you. I'm ranting. I'll shut up.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:11 pm 
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xSmellyxSkunkx wrote:
what about with the internet? releasing tracks on reverbnation/youtube/facebook? has that made any significant changes in Louisville music? I mean couldn't you fill up a venue in like Indy or some shit without necessarily doing it in Louisville? I know thats a stupid question. I'd rather be big here than be big 100 miles away. I guess it just means more to me when I know i have some mutual friends/family here, and they will come to have fun, drink, and talk about the past. But still.... I have a love hate relationship with Louisville. I want to move and i don't think I ever will again, and from experience you can never really get away from Louisville. You will see a Spinellis t shirt somewhere, Or a Hookers record, or a can of Ale 8. It fucking follows you. I'm ranting. I'll shut up.


While I appreciate your optimism, please don't say that Louisville is a stepping stone to Indy. Gary, Indiana only exists to prove that there is something worse than Indianapolis.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:19 pm 
N00Benstein
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Oh, Whoa, NO! i didn't mean it by that at all! :lol:
We don't have shit like this here:
Image

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Major Exports

Fat people
Meth
Teen Pregnancies
STD's
College graduates (Indiana has the lowest rate of college graduates who remain in the state after graduating. Srsly!)
Stupidity
Garfield
Michael Jackson
IU sweatshirts
Inbred Genes
Diarrhea

Major Imports

Anything Walmart sells
Anything McDonald's sells
Fecal waste
Fat Girls! Fat Girls! Fat Girls!
Undesirable whores
Soiled underwear
Dollar Store Strip Malls
Pick-em Up Trucks
Outcasts from all other states (Indiana Government)

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:21 pm 
Vegeta of the innarwebs

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xSmellyxSkunkx wrote:
and from experience you can never really get away from Louisville....It fucking follows you.


haha i totally can back this.

signed,
someone who moved away over ten years ago and still frequents this forum


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Being in a band is not a way to make money. It is a way to loose money. But a fun way to do it. My wife and I always looked at it like some people spend time and money playing golf, some join softball leagues, some people play bingo, others go to casinos, or bars or the movies.

It is fun, but when you get money back, that is a bonus, not to be expected.


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:12 am 
N00Benstein
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I think its kinda funny. I've probably spent more money on band equipment than gambling addicts have spent at casinos.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:19 am 
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i supported myself and my music by having a real job where i earned real vacation time and a few days/weeks per year i got paid my vacation time while playing with my bands. this helped during the times we didnt make money playing gigs. which was the majority of them after paying for bar tabs, gas bills, hotel rooms, flights, merchandise, recording, and occasionally practice space rental.

best bet is a 9-5. you get paid, you get benefits, you have sick/vacation days. keep playing music with your bros. when you get it together, play some shows. if you're decent and friendly, and willing to do grunt work its not difficult at all to play a lot of regional shows. lots of colleges/cities within a 5 hour drive radius.



if you want to try and "make it" i hope you have a very understanding wife. if thats the case, get a lot of shitty part time jobs. have bandmates who all have shitty part time jobs. pool your money for a tour vehicle. if your shitty boss wont let you go on tour, quit your shitty job (or jobs) and tour anyway. get more shitty jobs when you get back to town. rinse, repeat, until you "make it" or face reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:20 am 
Shen-Long of the Internet
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xSmellyxSkunkx wrote:
Quote:
And if perhaps you think of "being in a band" means making cds, merchandise, selling stuff.. essentially making your band a commodity in the hopes you will get "signed" or "paid" or because your ego tells you that the public is just dying for another eye rolling shoegazer wimp rag anthem or straight edge screamo cry baby time or cookie monster belch dump or one two three four! hardcore my crew your crew punch'em up bullshit you are lying to yourself and your band probably sucks (again, yours may not).

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I appreciate your realist ideology!


I wanted to clarify that that little bit was regarding pressing cds. A total waste of money these days. A few hundred maybe but you can no longer press 1000 and sell them all at shows like you used to.

I'm on a little kick right now against bands "commodifying" themselves. Just fucking slay and shut up.

But dude, it's hard to tour, have a wife, keep a job... restaurant work always hired transient types.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:31 am 
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just want to chime in about bands "commodifying themselves".

at this point, its so fucking easy to hear music for free that just the music alone usually isn't enough to get people coming to shows/supporting bands. playing in louisville is fucking depressing sometimes, especially when just friends come out to shows. and most of the time friends don't even seriously like the music, they are just there for support. But if you can get those people to buy shirts/koozies/prints, then you might make a little money that you can use for band purposes. fucking recording studios cost a lot of money, and then afterwards its fucking impossible to sell a reasonable amount of music unless you have it on vinyl (which is then another huge cost). CDs are worthless, good for only giving music away, just like bandcamp and the like.


i'm in no way thinking that i can support myself through music alone, but if thats not the end goal, i don't know what is. yes, its great to say "just play because you love it, fuck money", but that isn't enough for someone like me. granted, you guys have 5+ years on me, and i can totally see myself coming around to that point of view in a few years. but for now, my goals are pretty simple, i just want to tour and play music to people that want to hear it. and not a "got my credit card maxed, playing last second shows thrown together by people that owe me a favor" tour.


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:19 am 
Vegeta of the innarwebs

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i agree that the restaurant life is a good way to go for this kind of thing - especially waiting tables. on the other hand, me and several friends have gotten lucky with decent office jobs + vacation time. in fact my whole band is in this situation - and two of us are married (and one of us has a kid, and i have one on the way). we don't go out for month long jaunts or anything, but we take some long weekends here and there. in my previous job, i was able to take unpaid days too whenever i wanted. that's not always ideal, but if you just need an extra day or too and want to save some vacation time for the wife it's a good way to go.

but also, yeah, we never make money. a good tour is breaking even. a great tour is making a little extra and maybe being able to pay a month of practice space rent. an average tour is being in the hole a couple hundred bucks (each). making money would be nice and i would definitely welcome it, but it's always been about making the music and playing live for me.

touring is the shit and one of my favorite parts about being in a band. sure it can be grueling, trying and depressing at times, but it can also be some of the best times we've had.


Last edited by worm merkin on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:35 am 
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Basically, people do what they really want to do.
If you really want to tour, you'll work it out by doing whatever needs to be done.
If you don't really want to, you won't.

If you belong to the first group, you'll understand what I mean.

Thinking locally of people who tour.....two are trust fund brats and therefore do what they want, one had a studio and therefore worked for himself, a couple are teachers and therefore have the summer off, a few were/are just so good that their band mates had no choice but to float them (or risk losing them), several worked at bars, etc......different strokes for different blokes, there are no real rules.

The only real advice I can give you is this: Don't rely so heavily on advice.
Most of it comes from people who have not toured or have half assed it and failed or just want to tell you something can't be done or shouldn't be done because they couldn't or didn't.

Just do it. Or don't.
But remember, it is better to try and fail than it is to never try.


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:21 am 
Master and Commander
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It's a big commitment, so make sure it's something you really want to do. And good luck finding a full time 9-5 M-F job with benefits that will give you time off to tour whenever. They're out there (I got lucky and found one eight years ago, and I'm still there), but they're rare. Prepare to lose money. Prepare to strain personal relationships (so many girlfriends who I thought were "the one" have come and gone because they couldn't handle me being gone often). BUT....prepare to have lots of fun times, make lots of new friends and have plenty of interesting experiences too.


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 Post subject: Re: Supporting yourself and your music
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:41 am 
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You hafta take a piss test to work at fucking ups now?..Whuthe fuck??

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